Tracking Wounded Big Game With A Dog

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

No, it is only illegal in wmus that don't start with a 4.


TJ Schwanky deserves a plaque for getting this started.

Its time to expand the law to allow dogs to accompany, but not chase, in ALL wmus.

Hello wonderful minister for outfitters?

I was specifically talking about tracking wounded game with dogs or using dogs to find downed game, not accompanying hunters during the hunt or using them as pack dogs.

LC

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by rugerfan

That little “and” in there is important to. What you are advising doing is following after, on the trail of or searching for the animal, which is specifically mentioned in the portion I posted and not a part of the exemption criteria you did.

You're trying too hard....

By law, Without a weapon and without intend to kill, you are not "Hunting".
If you find the dead deer, take a photo.
Then come back without the dogs and tag it.

If you are not hunting, there is no law I am aware of making it illegal to have a dog under control being allowed to scent track a big game animal.

Remember, the "hunting" definition is notoriously "loose".
See the multitude of previous discussions on the topic of the legal definition of "hunting".




This law is outdated.
It was one of Albert's very first big game laws.
The sole intent was to abolish the use of catch hounds (wolf hounds) before causing the extirpation of our few remaining deer, elk and antelope.

Those days are past.

Keep it illegal to allow dogs to chase big game, whether while hunting or not.
Allow for the use of dogs under control or on a leash to scent track wounded big game for the purpose of retrieval and the prevention of "waste".

[rugerfan]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

You're trying too hard....

By law, Without a weapon and without intend to kill, you are not "Hunting".
If you find the dead deer, take a photo.
Then come back without the dogs and tag it.

If you are not hunting, there is no law I am aware of making it illegal to have a dog under control being allowed to scent track a big game animal.

Remember, the "hunting" definition is notoriously "loose".
See the multitude of previous discussions on the topic of the legal definition of "hunting".




This law is outdated.
It was one of Albert's very first big game laws.
The sole intent was to abolish the use of catch hounds (wolf hounds) before causing the extirpation of our few remaining deer, elk and antelope.

Those days are past.

Keep it illegal to allow dogs to chase big game, whether while hunting or not.
Allow for the use of dogs under control or on a leash to scent track wounded big game for the purpose of retrieval and the prevention of "waste".

Tell you what, next time you decide to do this why don’t you invite your local conservation officer out to join you and see how it goes. I’m no lawyer, but I can read and trailing deer with a dog is illegal.

[Sundog57]

As one of my friends always says:
Anytime you think that you're within the boundary of the law, think of your intended excuse, for example:
"I wasn't actually hunting"
and then mentally add the words 'Your Honour" to the sentence

Does it sound convincing?

[elkhunter11]

The truth is that there are ways to pretty much eliminate being convicted, one way being to dress up in your upland gear, take your shotgun with birdshot, and take your dog to the site where the animal was wounded, and hunt birds. If your dog should stumble upon the animal, you don't approach it, you take your dog home, and come back and tag the deer.
Although there is very little chance of being convicted,
it is still technically illegal, because of your intent in
taking your dog to that location, hoping that it would find the animal. And if the animal is still alive, and it gets up and walks off, you can't legally finish it, or allow the dog to continue tracking it. The law should be changed, so that a person doesn't even consider resorting to false excuses like upland hunting, or just running your dog in a certain location, hoping that the dog finds your big game animal.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

You could say the same thing about hunters, given the amount of trespassing, irresponsible handling of firearms, poaching ,etc, yet we support hunting.

Many do say that. A lot of them have the keys to the gate.

How do you think we all lost access to so much private land? Too many irresponsible people doing stupid things. My only guess is you don’t care are mostly a bird hunter anyway.

Think about that black cow that was mistakenly shot in moose season in 1982, in 54 counties, owned by 857 ranchers. We’ve ALL heard of the cow, in every corner of the province, for years, as a reason to deny access.

Now what do you think is going to happen to access when some hunters mutt trespasses and runs a several thousand dollar prize whatever into a fence or picks a fight with a livestock guardian dog…and it does happen, thus the current “shoot em” law. ALL hunters, regardless of whether they’ve ever touched a dog, will be to blame.

If you can’t leave your dog behind, just stick to birds, no one is hunting deer on a release site.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

You're trying too hard....

By law, Without a weapon and without intend to kill, you are not "Hunting".
If you find the dead deer, take a photo.
Then come back without the dogs and tag it.

If you are not hunting, there is no law I am aware of making it illegal to have a dog under control being allowed to scent track a big game animal.

Remember, the "hunting" definition is notoriously "loose".
See the multitude of previous discussions on the topic of the legal definition of "hunting".




This law is outdated.
It was one of Albert's very first big game laws.
The sole intent was to abolish the use of catch hounds (wolf hounds) before causing the extirpation of our few remaining deer, elk and antelope.

Those days are past.

Keep it illegal to allow dogs to chase big game, whether while hunting or not.
Allow for the use of dogs under control or on a leash to scent track wounded big game for the purpose of retrieval and the prevention of "waste".

Oh look there it is already. Now it’s “under control” not just on a leash.

The leash didn’t even last to the end of the thread

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Many do say that. A lot of them have the keys to the gate.

How do you think we all lost access to so much private land? Too many irresponsible people doing stupid things. My only guess is you don’t care are mostly a bird hunter anyway.

Think about that black cow that was mistakenly shot in moose season in 1982, in 54 counties, owned by 857 ranchers. We’ve ALL heard of the cow, in every corner of the province, for years, as a reason to deny access.

Now what do you think is going to happen to access when some hunters mutt trespasses and runs a several thousand dollar prize whatever into a fence or picks a fight with a livestock guardian dog…and it does happen, thus the current “shoot em” law. ALL hunters, regardless of whether they’ve ever touched a dog, will be to blame.

If you can’t leave your dog behind, just stick to birds, no one is hunting deer on a release site.

According to yourself, and some others, those dogs are already running wild, attacking everyone in their path, how would making it legal to have a leashed dog tracking a big game animal change that?

[-JR-]

Maybe they should allow it on private land only and not on crown land
But that just might be opening a can of worms and the push would be to allow it on crown land. I could see outfitters using 5 or even 10 dogs trained for pushing large areas of bush to push deer to the hunter. It would not take long for an area
to get hunted out or very spooked Just not fair for the average hunter who has no dogs to hunt that same area a few days later .

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by -JR-

Maybe they should allow it on private land only and not on crown land
But that just might be opening a can of worms and the push would be to allow it on crown land. I could see outfitters using 5 or even 10 dogs trained for pushing large areas of bush to push deer to the hunter. It would not take long for an area
to get hunted out or very spooked Just not fair for the average hunter who has no dogs to hunt that same area a few days later .

There is a huge difference between allowing unleashed dogs to chase big game, and leashed dogs to track big game. A leashed dog can only cover the same ground that a person can cover, at the speed that a person can cover that ground, so not really an advantage for driving game towards hunters. How effective would a dog be for herding cattle or sheep, if you had to have that dog leashed?

[Smoky buck]

BC has allowed recovery with leashed dogs for ungulates for as long as I can remember and none of the whack job fears being posted in this thread are taking place. Start looking around North America and the world even you will see tracking dogs are legal in many places

It is used for when things go wrong and to make sure an animal is not wasted. Having a hard time seeing why a leashed tracking dog is an issue

Maybe we should have a mandatory tracking course instead if dogs are such an issue. Too many guys out there who can’t track without a blood trail or assume they missed and move on because they can’t find blood. I see a much bigger issue here than a leashed dog

My nieces buck last week went 100yards zero blood into thick bush and died last week. I would bet there is a good % of guys on this forum who would have gave up or passed it off as a miss wasting this buck. Yes some are good trackers but unfortunately many are not and that is no BS

All for leashed tracking dog even though I doubt I will use one

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

BC has allowed recovery with leashed dogs for ungulates for as long as I can remember and none of the whack job fears being posted in this thread are taking place. Start looking around North America and the world even you will see tracking dogs are legal in many places

It is used for when things go wrong and to make sure an animal is not wasted. Having a hard time seeing why a leashed tracking dog is an issue

Maybe we should have a mandatory tracking course instead if dogs are such an issue. Too many guys out there who can’t track without a blood trail or assume they missed and move on because they can’t find blood. I see a much bigger issue here than a leashed dog

My nieces buck last week went 100yards zero blood into thick bush and died last week. I would bet there is a good % of guys on this forum who would have gave up or passed it off as a miss wasting this buck. Yes some are good trackers but unfortunately many are not and that is no BS

All for leashed tracking dog even though I doubt I will use one

The sad fact, is that many hunters, can't be bothered to follow up their shots, be it for birds or big game, unless the animal falls immediately.
As for using a dog to track, I would certainly train my dog to blood trail if it was legal, and I would be out helping hunters to recover their animals, because I ,like many dog owners enjoy working their dog, and watching them hunt. I already help people to recover birds when they can't find a cripple, so big game wouldn't be any different to me. In fact if it was legal, I can see some dog owners making a business out of providing a tracking service.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The sad fact, is that many hunters, can't be bothered to follow up their shots, be it for birds or big game, unless the animal falls immediately.
As for using a dog to track, I would certainly train my dog to blood trail if it was legal, and I would be out helping hunters to recover their animals, because I ,like many dog owners enjoy working their dog, and watching them hunt. I already help people to recover birds when they can't find a cripple, so big game wouldn't be any different to me. In fact if it was legal, I can see some dog owners making a business out of providing a tracking service.

My buddy in BC used his dumb untrained mutt to locate a friends bear and the dog had no issues so I can just imagine how well a trained dog would do

But it’s pretty clear the is portion of guys who would fight it

Maybe guys need to start ending their season and sitting out the following every time they fail to recover an animal to learn

[Ackleyman]

How about know your rifle and be ethical with limits of your ability so you dont make a pi** poor shot requiring a long track.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

According to yourself, and some others, those dogs are already running wild, attacking everyone in their path, how would making it legal to have a leashed dog tracking a big game animal change that?

It would put more dogs out there. Thus creating more problems. For the last time, THE DOGS WONT BE LEASHED! They aren’t as it is, so no reasonable person would think another leash law would somehow change behavior.

At the moment, landowners can’t blame big game hunters for dog problems.

We've already been blamed for cut fences, rutted fields, shot cows, fires, bullet holes in everything, and who knows what else.

Other people’s dogs are generally NOT welcome on private land. Again, maybe your little patchs of bird cover differ, or you have a special permission privilege. That’s fine. Enjoy. But as a rule, what you are suggesting will cause far more problems than it solves. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Ackleyman

How about know your rifle and be ethical with limits of your ability so you dont make a pi** poor shot requiring a long track.

So quartering away through both lungs but no exit is a bad shot?

How about my buck 2 years ago quartering to both lungs top of heart no blood till 5 ft away after 60yards into the thick crap?

I also don’t care how awesome you claim to be either everyone experiences things go sideways at some point.

I could list a ton of examples and I recovered everyone. Good shot doesn’t always leave good blood, different terrain and weather also make a difference. My recovery rate and ability to find animals that someone “missed” is pretty good too lol

But I can admit I have lost 2 animals in the 30+ years I have been hunting so I am not perfect. I doubt you are either

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Ackleyman

How about know your rifle and be ethical with limits of your ability so you dont make a pi** poor shot requiring a long track.

While I agree with knowing your rifle, and your limits, I can't say that I know any hunters, that have killed 50 or more big game animals, that have not lost a single big game animal that they drew blood on. No matter how good you are, things can happen.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by 3blade

It would put more dogs out there. Thus creating more problems. For the last time, THE DOGS WONT BE LEASHED! They aren’t as it is, so no reasonable person would think another leash law would somehow change behavior.

At the moment, landowners can’t blame big game hunters for dog problems.

We've already been blamed for cut fences, rutted fields, shot cows, fires, bullet holes in everything, and who knows what else.

Other people’s dogs are generally NOT welcome on private land. Again, maybe your little patchs of bird cover differ, or you have a special permission privilege. That’s fine. Enjoy. But as a rule, what you are suggesting will cause far more problems than it solves. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I experienced and heard of zero issues with dogs being used in BC for recovery. The law is they must be leashed track ungulates. Are you saying people in Alberta are not capable of handling the right to use dogs for recovery even though many places across the world seem to manage?

Seems like fear mongering to me nothing more

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I experienced and heard of zero issues with dogs being used in BC for recovery. The law is they must be leashed track ungulates. Are you saying people in Alberta are not capable of handling the right to use dogs for recovery even though many places across the world seem to manage?

Seems like fear mongering to me nothing more

Fear mongering based on a personal phobia.

[Ackleyman]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

So quartering away through both lungs but no exit is a bad shot?

How about my buck 2 years ago quartering to both lungs top of heart no blood till 5 ft away after 60yards into the thick crap?

I also don’t care how awesome you claim to be either everyone experiences things go sideways at some point.

I could list a ton of examples and I recovered everyone. Good shot doesn’t always leave good blood, different terrain and weather also make a difference. My recovery rate and ability to find animals that someone “missed” is pretty good too lol

But I can admit I have lost 2 animals in the 30+ years I have been hunting so I am not perfect. I doubt you are either

Relax ..I never claimed to be awesome. Your not telling me anything i dont know. Ive hit Whitetails that i figured was a good shot also , they can cover alot of ground heading for cover on pure adrenalaine till they bleed out. Like most i have searched for a deer more then once and found them....... AND I have also lost two deer exactly in 55 years of hunting so yah i'm not perfect either. It was not for lack of effort. My comment about knowing your rifle and actual ability was for those that don't.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Ackleyman

Relax ..I never claimed to be awesome. Your not telling me anything i dont know. Ive hit Whitetails that i figured was a good shot also , they can cover alot of ground heading for cover on pure adrenalaine till they bleed out. Like most i have searched for a deer more then once and found them....... AND I have also lost two deer exactly in 55 years of hunting so yah i'm not perfect either. It was not for lack of effort. My comment about knowing your rifle and actual ability was for those that don't.

Completely fair and knowing your limits it’s definitely important

[Ackleyman]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Completely fair and knowing your limits it’s definitely important

[3blade]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I experienced and heard of zero issues with dogs being used in BC for recovery. The law is they must be leashed track ungulates. Are you saying people in Alberta are not capable of handling the right to use dogs for recovery even though many places across the world seem to manage?

Seems like fear mongering to me nothing more

That is exactly what I’m saying. There is a culture of responsibility in some other places that does not exist here, and thats rapidly ending our opportunity to hunt (along with other factors). Go try getting permission anywhere you’re not known. Look at the results of that access survey. And tell me that’s gonna be better with guys bringing their dogs along.

We have a law that says dogs can be shot when causing problems. Think about that. Figure it came from thin air? Fear mongering? Me being mad about being bit?

Or, just perhaps, there is a serious problem with dogs and dog owners. Your answer is more dogs during hunting season…it’s almost funny if it wasn’t so myopic.

[-JR-]

Just leave it as it is. ....wolfs need to eat too ! Lol

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by 3blade

That is exactly what I’m saying. There is a culture of responsibility in some other places that does not exist here, and thats rapidly ending our opportunity to hunt (along with other factors). Go try getting permission anywhere you’re not known. Look at the results of that access survey. And tell me that’s gonna be better with guys bringing their dogs along.

We have a law that says dogs can be shot when causing problems. Think about that. Figure it came from thin air? Fear mongering? Me being mad about being bit?

Or, just perhaps, there is a serious problem with dogs and dog owners. Your answer is more dogs during hunting season…it’s almost funny if it wasn’t so myopic.

Sorry I call BS I have been around and have enough friends/family in different provinces to tell Alberta is no worse than. I would say BC hunter ethics are worse than I experience in Alberta by far.

I have seen you cry about not getting permission often but for some reason those I know hunting private don’t seem to have an issue. For example seen posts you can’t get permission so you won’t pull antelope. Well buddy from Calgary had no issues getting permission on a ton of places for antelope for his mom 3 days before the season this year. He has no issues throughout southern Alberta it seems

Starting to think the issue is a you problem more than anything or full of crap and don’t try not sure

[cowmanbob]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Sorry I call BS I have been around and have enough friends/family in different provinces to tell Alberta is no worse than. I would say BC hunter ethics are worse than I experience in Alberta by far.

I have seen you cry about not getting permission often but for some reason those I know hunting private don’t seem to have an issue. For example seen posts you can’t get permission so you won’t pull antelope. Well buddy from Calgary had no issues getting permission on a ton of places for antelope for his mom 3 days before the season this year. He has no issues throughout southern Alberta it seems

Starting to think the issue is a you problem more than anything or full of crap and don’t try not sure

His dislike for women and horses and the six dog attacks would take a toll on anyone.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

His dislike for women and horses and the six dog attacks would take a toll on anyone.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

His dislike for women and horses and the six dog attacks would take a toll on anyone.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

His dislike for women and horses and the six dog attacks would take a toll on anyone.

Probably not to his advantage lol